tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2465863144787683153.post5029493314125847631..comments2024-03-27T19:02:58.368-04:00Comments on BARKING ALIEN: CounterbalanceAdam Dicksteinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04840144928096089178noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2465863144787683153.post-79143636386418134302013-02-19T14:44:20.938-05:002013-02-19T14:44:20.938-05:00Oh my ... how "exclusive" of some people...Oh my ... how "exclusive" of some people. No "average people or gamers allowed" ... how awesome that must be ...Blacksteelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16289298640828309072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2465863144787683153.post-61845709904315729682013-02-17T10:23:42.982-05:002013-02-17T10:23:42.982-05:00Yes, and unless you are playing a modern setting o...Yes, and unless you are playing a modern setting or the game is actually set in the Doctor Who or DC Universe, the character certainly hasn't read that book or seen that movie and so, isn't going to have the knowledge required to solve the puzzle.<br /><br />A funny counterpoint to this is that whenever I steal a puzzle or plot point of some kind from a book or film, it's my sincere hope that the players haven't read it or seen it, otherwise they'll know the solution in advance. Of course, since I'm not a bad GM I make sure that the characters do have the knowledge to allow the players to find the solution and if the players come up with a clever alternative way to solve the problem, I will go with it. goeticgeekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02806200047269447375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2465863144787683153.post-65500402917577248822013-02-17T05:45:38.713-05:002013-02-17T05:45:38.713-05:00The average person probably doesn't play games...The average person probably doesn't play games but even the average gamer is way too dumb or at least too boring to hang out with. I like fun, clever people.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2465863144787683153.post-20815908245480954912013-02-16T21:24:52.458-05:002013-02-16T21:24:52.458-05:00Point received and taken. You are correct and I di...Point received and taken. You are correct and I did indeed er in that regard.<br /><br />One might say the 'average' person isn't playing RPGs at all, eh?<br /><br />Although, as I mentioned in my posts before, there must be an 'average gamer'. Hmmm.Adam Dicksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04840144928096089178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2465863144787683153.post-59497127945491448662013-02-16T19:20:02.378-05:002013-02-16T19:20:02.378-05:00A welcome counterpoint illustrating an important i...A welcome counterpoint illustrating an important idea:<br />your perception of D&D and old school games is based on different people than mine is.<br /><br />You did make one mistake, but it's small:<br />"In it he says, essentially, that he is cool with any puzzle, trap or encounter the PCs of any given game may come across as long as there is a possibility that a reasonable group of average, intelligent people (the Players in this case) can survive and defeat it."<br /><br />The word "average" is not in my post. When running games, I am uninterested in average people or what they want or can do.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2465863144787683153.post-51055099421519458632013-02-16T13:34:34.705-05:002013-02-16T13:34:34.705-05:00Here's the thing about being a dick...OK two t...Here's the thing about being a dick...OK two things. <br /><br />First, don't be one.<br /><br />Second, the last time I faced a GM with an obscure, nigh-unsolvable puzzle as a player, I honestly don't think they were trying to be a dick. Not at all. I think they were trying to be clever and challenging.<br /><br />The problem was and is, what is challenging and clever to your experience may not mesh well with the experience and knowledge of others.<br /><br />So, check and see if anyone in your group other than yourself read that book, saw that movie, knows anything about DC Comics from the early 50's, watched every single episode of the new Doctor Who or whatever before thinking about using any one of those things as the basis for a puzzle or trap. It's usually better to go more general and have a trap or puzzle based on reason, a common cliche', word play or something that anyone with a bit of thinking can sort out.Adam Dicksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04840144928096089178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2465863144787683153.post-82928632393225837592013-02-16T13:10:33.151-05:002013-02-16T13:10:33.151-05:00I don't know.
While at present I don't ha...I don't know.<br /><br />While at present I don't have too many detective/investigative type players, there was a time where I had a good number.<br /><br />Kobold notes that none of us are Sherlock Holmes but my ex-wife, Allen of RavenFeast's Mead Hall, Pete Hernandez from my old High School group and a few of the fellows from our Star Trek and Champions day could definitely give Batman a run for their money.Adam Dicksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04840144928096089178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2465863144787683153.post-77044387553487095272013-02-16T13:06:41.959-05:002013-02-16T13:06:41.959-05:00Multilayered and/or complex plots in and of themse...Multilayered and/or complex plots in and of themselves don't bug me.<br /><br />It's when said plots are based on this one episode of this one TV show that was on 11 years ago for about two years and if you didn't see that episode you can't solve the problem.<br /><br />Stupid.<br /><br />If you are going to do that make sure everyone is a fan of that show before you make that adventure.<br /><br />I've said it before and I'll say it again, my Star Trek adventures often refer to things from the various TV series. No Star Trek adventure I have ever run REQUIRES you to have seen the series to succeed. Adam Dicksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04840144928096089178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2465863144787683153.post-86955794738212654132013-02-16T12:01:30.177-05:002013-02-16T12:01:30.177-05:00This are multiple aspects to this topic.
One the...This are multiple aspects to this topic. <br /><br />One the one hand we are talking about dickish GMs who, rather than using encounters to entertain and challenge their players, use encounters to either beat their players or prove that they are somehow cleverer, better more knowledgeable, etc. than their players and who smirk and gloat when their players can't figure out such a "simple" puzzle. This isn't a problem with the old school. There are immature dickish GMs everywhere. Newsflash to this breed, RPGS are cooperative games not competitive ones. If you want to compete, go play a board game.<br /><br />On the other hand, we are taking about the age old question of should an encounter challenge the players or should it challenge the characters? The old school tends to favor the former over the latter but that's not a bad thing. I mean it's fun for a player to have to solve a puzzle but a problem arises when the game loses sight of the idea that the players are playing characters. The worst puzzles are ones that rely exclusively on player knowledge that the character wouldn't have, whether it be a reference to popular culture or a part of the GMs thesis, if the puzzle is expected to be solved by something that the character could not and should not know it's the worst sort of meta-gaming. A good puzzle is something that is self contained, the clues to solving it should be contained within it or should be well within the characters body of knowledge. The character could, of course, have knowledge that the player doesn't have and that is where die rolls should come into the picture. My 18 intelligence wizard with high ranking knowledge skills should be better at solving the puzzle than me. Thus a good balanced approach that combines both player and character capabilities is that the player must solve the puzzle but can make rolls against the characters stats or skills in order to get hints from the GM. This way the experience is a player having fun playing a character who is solving a puzzle which is what RPGs are about. <br /><br />Of course, none of this works if the GM is a dick. goeticgeekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02806200047269447375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2465863144787683153.post-35419664876215376702013-02-16T08:45:31.911-05:002013-02-16T08:45:31.911-05:00I had one of those GM's once. It was a one-sh...I had one of those GM's once. It was a one-shot, and we spent almost an hour trying to figure out the puzzle which constituted the last scene of the game. Eventually he had an NPC help us out, which was worse.<br /><br />When it comes to plot complications, I think you need to get about as convoluted as a Scooby Doo episode. Anything higher will get lost.WQRobbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17436898737750581192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2465863144787683153.post-52964386689335633082013-02-16T04:33:53.017-05:002013-02-16T04:33:53.017-05:00Zak's right. Start worrying about these people...Zak's right. Start worrying about these people once you've met one. Once he's left the room, stop worrying about him.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07090296806321882601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2465863144787683153.post-21575672450330284232013-02-16T01:24:48.628-05:002013-02-16T01:24:48.628-05:00Must admit I have a friend who runs to convoluted ...Must admit I have a friend who runs to convoluted plots and several layers of multi-coloured herring in his games. After the third or fourth layer, we usually give it up and the game quietly dies.<br /><br />I've found that convoluted plots work better in prose than in roleplaying games as none of the players I know, no matter how bright they are, are either Sherlock Holmes or Hercule Poirot and, quite frankly, we play RPGs for fun, not to prove what great tetris players we are. Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14192928573798426693noreply@blogger.com