My Champions game has ended and honestly I can't say I'm not happy it's over.
The final session was brutal, not just in the nature of the combat but in the excruciatingly slow time it took to get some of the players to DO SOMETHING! It reached a point where Dave and I just couldn't take it anymore and told the players slowing things down to either take real action or the two of us would be leaving. I of course am the GM, so if I leave, the game is over.
There was a point where three characters, one PC and two NPCs, each as powerful as Superman, snuck up on a villain while invisible and silent (all were using Flight to float into the room). When perfectly in place to deliver a powerful strike and potentially take out the villain with ease, the PC in the sequence went from stalling to indecisive to wanting to have one of the NPCs be dropped in front of the villain (which would make said NPC visible as the other two characters were generating the invisibility field).
The level of indecisiveness, overthinking and down right cowardice was rivaled only by the complete lack of heroics. Interestingly, only Dave acted like a hero, thought on his feet and was both the brave and the bold during the adventure. While Lee's character ended up killing one of the world's worst villains, it didn't feel superheroic to me in the least. Dave's defeat of two other villains were far more epic and comic book like. His Batman/Daredevil character should be commended for NOT killing his opponent and his technomagic, light based hero merged with a Firestorm analog NPC to destroy a cosmically powered, evil android resembling a bad Silver Surfer. That was an awesome moment I have to tell you.
While the session did have some fun moments, great one-liners and crazy cool maneuvers, in the end it was a little depressing, very frustrating and really makes me want to either add to or change the group's make up for the purposes of my own sanity.
Well, off to bed. I really needed to get that off my chest. It doesn't make me happy to feel this way, nor to have to complain about it to all of you but I feel better having written it down.
I did reach one interesting realization based on a comment made by one of the players about a previous game I ran and why he really liked it. I compared what he said to our experiences in this Champions campaign and, well, be on the look out for a post on the nature and number of NPCs and how I feel it can effect a game.
Good night Earth,
AD
Barking Alien
I've had games that seem to move at a glacial pace, but more often than not, it's by design. When playing in a game with a brutal combat system and a social setting that frowns on violence, having the players spend a lot of time planning their actions to have a better chance of success and/or of getting away with it, then it makes sense. But I also love action heavy games - Feng Shui as an example - and have in the past had to really jockey my players along, counting them down in combat rounds so they know they only have a few seconds to act or I move to the next initiative slot.
ReplyDeleteIt's not fun, but for the sake of everyone's enjoyment, you sometimes have to take a hard line.
Superheroes certainly doesn't frown on violence. Likewise, Supers can also use clever thinking but it isn't brain surgery.
ReplyDeleteEspecially in the case of this particular Superhero setting (that is, the one I used for the campaign), I would view Champions as a 'Quick-Thinking-Action-Heavy-Game'.
Once the group line up we had was added into the mix it became a 'Snails-Pace-Over-Analyzed-Assumptions-Made-Without-Really-Absorbing-What-The-GM-Is-Saying-Don't-Take-An-Action-Until-You've-Planned-It-To-The-Second-And-Then-Gotten-Someone-Else-To-Carry-Out-The-Action-Game'.
That was very much not 'by design'.
One thing about my style of play is that during combat 'Really Fast' is waaay too slow for me.
I ran into similar issues in my DC Heroes (MEGS) game. It became clear I had to take control from character creation forward. My primary player (a veteran comic book reader) tried to make a healer. I pulled him to the side and challenged him. "Name a mainstream Superhero Cleric?" He could not name one. I gave him the raised Eyebrow of Disapproval.
ReplyDeleteAnother player tried to make a stealth type that couldn't be touched or detected. I brought it all to a halt.
I made it clear that we are not playing D&D or WoW. There will be no "buffing" in a Superhero game. Sneaking around is not allowed except for obvious situations by specific character types. Jumping into the fray with reckless abandon is not only encouraged...It is required.
Sounds harsh? It was a bit Draconian, but it got everyone on the same page. Everyone would be sticking their necks out together, so it was ok.
I also distributed reading material from both Marvel and DC to give examples of my expectations.
It worked, we had a great time.
Now maybe I wasn't clear or maybe it is the way you described it but I am by not means looking to control the players choices or actions in the way you describe.
ReplyDeleteI think that a Superhero Cleric would be AWESOME! We don't see a mainstream one true. Why the heck not?! So Wolverine doesn't need any help and can be all loner bad ass and no one has to come to his aid because that would somehow make him less cool. Screw that. A PC Super Healer would be neat and heroic.
It wasn't that having the 'Superman' sneaking around bothered me. Nor was it that I 'required' jumping into the fray. It's the idea of encountering a situation, thinking how to be solve it and acting on that idea yourself (YOU the Player commit to the action taken by YOUR PC).
Cowards don't put on garish costumes and fight crime. Spiderman, Batman and Daredevil, who can all be killed by a single well aimed bullet, don't get Nova, Booster Gold or the Shroud to do their fighting for them. When they encounter a dire situation, like a villain threatening a person, a town or a world, they don't take three hours to figure out how to stop the bad guy, nor jump in feet first with no thought to civilians casualties what so ever.
These are heroes. What's more, these are...wait for it...SUPERheroes. They investigate, assess and act.
Is that really so hard?
"Cowards don't put on garish costumes and fight crime. Spiderman, Batman and Daredevil, who can all be killed by a single well aimed bullet, don't get Nova, Booster Gold or the Shroud to do their fighting for them. When they encounter a dire situation, like a villain threatening a person, a town or a world, they don't take three hours to figure out how to stop the bad guy, nor jump in feet first with no thought to civilians casualties what so ever."
DeleteThat was what I explained to them. Nova was a prime example I used.
Nova constantly got his butt kicked when he first found the helmet. Heroes often do. Saving the day is dangerous.
My players will spend most of the session plotting a raid. This isnt a superHERO game to me.
My point about Super Cleric was that they were gearing up (literally) to treat the world of DC like Super D&D. That is fine if that is the game world you have set up. But Im a veteran comic book reader and that would have been a disaster.
I prefer Comic Book superhero games. Not Superhuman Roleplaying. Hopefully that makes some sense? (-:
Thanks for the super hero topic. Its tough to find people on the blogosphere that understand the balancing act of comicbook heroes and rpgs.
"I prefer Comic Book superhero games. Not Superhuman Roleplaying. Hopefully that makes some sense? (-:"
DeleteSo much sense I it's like the gospel of Supers gaming.
I think I understand your Super Cleric reference now. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a magic or psychic Superhero character in comics or a game with powers 'resembling' those of a traditional medieval fantasy cleric but that is very different from thinking you are playing 'A Cleric' in a Supers game the way you would play 'A Cleric' in D&D.
I agree with you on the unfortunate lack of Comic Book Super RPG discussion on the blog-net. At the same time, there is some great stuff out there. It just requires digging as opposed to the D&D stuff which it seems impossible not to trip over.